Re: [SR-Users] SEMS license with kamailio and rtpengine

Hello, Just to add - your general statement “From this perspective, none of the config files (no matter they are native scripting, lua, python, javascript, etc...) are forced to be GPL, it is the decision of the config author what's its license.” This seems to be pretty clear to me as well, the previous discussion was more a question of this pre-compiled Lua files.

Cheers,   Henning     *From:* Henning Westerholt *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2022 10:46 AM *To:* miconda(a)gmail.com; Kamailio (SER) - Users Mailing List &lt;sr-users(a)lists.kamailio.org&gt; *Subject:* RE: [SR-Users] SEMS license with kamailio and rtpengine   Hello,   for me it’s seems to be not that clear, its open to interpretation. But this is more a theoretical discussion, it should be clarified from a lawyer. To quote from the GPL FAQ:   https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsG… “Another similar and very common case is to provide libraries with the interpreter which are themselves interpreted. For instance, Perl comes with many Perl modules[..]. These libraries and the programs that call them are always dynamically linked together. A consequence is that if you choose to use GPL'd Perl modules [..] in your program, you must release the program in a GPL-compatible way, regardless of the license used in the Perl [..] interpreter that the combined Perl [..] program will run on. “ https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#MereAggregation “Combining two modules means connecting them together so that they form a single larger program. If either part is covered by the GPL, the whole combination must also be released under the GPL—if you can't, or won't, do that, you may not combine them. [..] if the semantics of the communication are intimate enough, exchanging complex internal data structures, that too could be a basis to consider the two parts as combined into a larger program.” This seems to apply to the KEMI Lua. You execute the Kamailio (GPL) function in your KEMI script by some library mechanism. The Lua script and Kamailio are not using a standardized interface to interact together like e.g., SIP messages, it’s a custom specific one.   But if its specific enough to fall under this license restriction is the main point, we can probably not answer fully from our side.   Cheers,   Henning   *From:*Daniel-Constantin Mierla &lt;miconda(a)gmail.com&gt; *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2022 9:01 AM *To:* Kamailio (SER) - Users Mailing List &lt;sr-users(a)lists.kamailio.org&gt;rg>; Henning Westerholt &lt;hw(a)gilawa.com&gt; *Subject:* Re: [SR-Users] SEMS license with kamailio and rtpengine   Hello, On 10.02.22 08:36, Henning Westerholt wrote: Hello,   just to add to the discussion:   1.       Please have a look to the GPLv2 FAQ, many topics you’ve raised are discussed there https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html 2.       You should really consult a lawyer for this specific questions   Regarding the licence of the configuration (native script vs. KEMI) – my understanding would be that a native Kamailio cfg script would be independent of GPL as its interpreted (and practically the customer gets the “source code” anyway). But KEMI LUA code that is pre-compiled would fall under the GPL, so the customer has a right to get the source code for it. Compare e.g., to this: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsG…   I guess that the pre-compile is done by the luac, because Kamailio does not have such feature. Kamailio can only load a lua script (plain or pre-compiled) and push it as a parameter to liblua functions. In my opinion this is only file/data loading from kamailio point of view, definitely does not seem a linking/compile operation. It can be seen as something similar to reading SIP messages from the socket (everything is a file descriptor in unix/linux philosophy) and I assume nobody considers that received/sent SIP messages have to be GPL. From this perspective, none of the config files (no matter they are native scripting, lua, python, javascript, etc...) are forced to be GPL, it is the decision of the config author what's its license. Cheers, Daniel   Cheers,   Henning   -- Henning Westerholt – https://skalatan.de/blog/ <https://skalatan.de/blog/> Kamailio services – https://gilawa.com <https://gilawa.com/>   *From:* sr-users &lt;sr-users-bounces(a)lists.kamailio.org&gt; <mailto:sr-users-bounces@lists.kamailio.org> *On Behalf Of *Olle E. Johansson *Sent:* Thursday, February 10, 2022 8:13 AM *To:* Kamailio (SER) - Users Mailing List &lt;sr-users(a)lists.kamailio.org&gt; <mailto:sr-users@lists.kamailio.org> *Subject:* Re: [SR-Users] SEMS license with kamailio and rtpengine   Hi Seven! Note that many of these questions open a legal discussion that has been going on for many years. I base my answers on what I know, which may not be the full truth. Regardless, I have been involved in these kind of discussions for almost 30 years of working in open source.   First, note that there are two kind of situations to observe. One is when your application is executing in a system. The other is the license of the written source code files.    Secondly, license and copyright are two different things. You always have the copyright to your source code.   In Kamailio there are source code files that have a different license than the rest of the files. That means that if you copy that source code and create a new product that license applies.   Kamailio as a whole is released under GPL version 2. When you run Kamailio in your server, that license applies to it all, regardless of the license of various source code files.   Also note that I base this discussion on a delivery of a system to a customer. When you run Kamailio as a service you do not deliver (according to GPL v2) and the customer doesn’t have the same rights to the source.   Also note that (as other persons has pointed out) that it’s the recipient of the binaries that has the rights, not the world. If I am not your customer, I can’t demand the source code according to the GPL. The customer that receives the code has the right to do whatever they want with it - like publishing the source on GitHub for the world to enjoy.     10 feb. 2022 kl. 00:16 skrev Seven Du &lt;dujinfang(a)gmail.com&gt;om>:   I have some questions on this, e.g. on Kamailio:   1. The core and some modules is GPL. I packaged that without change, and sell to a customer. and when the customer asks for source, I told him to download from the kamailio website, since I didn't change anything. Is that correct? How you distribute the source code to the customer is irrelevant here. Note that if you end up having to provide it on a floppy disk or a USB stick, you can charge for that according to the GPL :-)   2. I can also host the source on my own website, with some more helper scripts for building and packaging. That should be better? I can’t judge if it’s better or worse, it has very little relevance to with the license. Just make sure that you include the signatures made by the Kamailio team so the customer can trace it back to the source and make sure there’s no changes.   3. I write a new module, 100% code wrote from scratch, just follow the module guidelines or example code to expose/add hooks to core,  dynamically loaded into kamailio. Do I need to use GPL or can it be any license or even closed source? can I sell the standalone module in binary? Your source code has to be licensed in a license that can end up being compatible with GPL. You can not have a commercial license on it, since when executing it as part of Kamailio, GPL applies. Since your module ends up being GPL while running in a system you deliver for a fee or for free to your customer, your customers has a right to the source code.     4. my module still should be GPL since I have to call GPL code in kamailio source, e.g. string functions in core. or maybe it's ok if string functions in kamailio core is BSD? When executing ALL of Kamailio is GPL, including all linked modules.   5. If my module link to a 3rd party lib (e.g. libclosed-source.so or libclosed-source.a I think there's no difference?) which is not open source (but free to sell), can I sell it w/o the source of libclosed-source ? Linking means that you execute in the same processes and according to most this means that GPL applies. That’s why we have a lot of protocols where most people think that GPL does not apply, even though some people want to discuss that. In my personal view it’s ok to write commercial software that communicates over RPC or by using the http_client with Kamailio.   In Asterisk, the license specially permits this use of the various Asterisk protocols since there was discussions. Most Asterisk developers believed it wasn’t necessary and that GPL did not apply when using protocol based API’s. But nevertheless, just to avoid discussions, this was clarified in the license.   6. If answer to 5 is yes, I can write my own libclosed-source and sell with whatever license? You can, but if it links to Kamailio in run-time, then it will at that point become GPL licensed regardless of what you have written. That’s why many companies stay away from GPL, especially libraries that are licensed with GPL, because it can affect your own licenses.   7. Regards to KEMI, if I write routing scripts with Lua (compiled with luac) and sell to a customer, should I open source the Lua code? The Lua code calls Kamailio core functions which might be GPL. That is an interesting question which I’m not ready to answer. I think the intention of the Kamailio dev team is that your code should not be affected by GPL, but we may want to clarify that.   If you write a regular configuration script I would personally clearly think you have the rights to that. The idea with KEMI was to introduce modern ways of writing configuration scripts.   Thanks. I don't mean to violate the GPL, just want to be clear and easier to understand the license. Always good to start the day with a GPL discussion :-)   Cheers, /O     On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 9:05 PM Henning Westerholt &lt;hw(a)gilawa.com&gt; wrote: Hello, (just to add the obvious disclaimer that this is not legal advice, I am not a lawyer). to which Kamailio interfaced using very narrowly confined and general-purpose communication channels? I do not think there is a problem regarding to the GPL in this case. Interfacing over SIP/HTTP/RPC/XMLRPC or other standard mechanism to a dedicated process would not establish a close coupling between Kamailio and the other code.   I think it's correct. e.g. if you use evapi or http to talk to your service you don't have to open source your service code.   Cheers, Henning -- Henning Westerholt – https://skalatan.de/blog/ Kamailio services – https://gilawa.com -----Original Message----- From: sr-users &lt;sr-users-bounces(a)lists.kamailio.org&gt; On Behalf Of Alex Balashov Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2022 1:50 PM To: Kamailio (SER) - Users Mailing List &lt;sr-users(a)lists.kamailio.org&gt; Subject: Re: [SR-Users] SEMS license with kamailio and rtpengine &lt;hw(a)gilawa.com&gt; wrote: shared address space, that almost surely means combining them into one program.” and module architecture. The core and modules also share common data structures and memory segments. I see. So, practically, the only way a custom module could be considered meaningfully separate according to these criteria is if it were a standalone service to which Kamailio interfaced using very narrowly confined and general-purpose communication channels? — Alex -- Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/ __________________________________________________________ Kamailio - Users Mailing List - Non Commercial Discussions   * sr-users(a)lists.kamailio.org Important: keep the mailing list in the recipients, do not reply only to the sender! Edit mailing list options or unsubscribe:   * https://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-users __________________________________________________________ Kamailio - Users Mailing List - Non Commercial Discussions   * sr-users(a)lists.kamailio.org Important: keep the mailing list in the recipients, do not reply only to the sender! Edit mailing list options or unsubscribe:   * https://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-users   -- About: http://about.me/dujinfang Blog: http://www.dujinfang.com Proj:  http://www.freeswitch.org.cn __________________________________________________________ Kamailio - Users Mailing List - Non Commercial Discussions  * sr-users(a)lists.kamailio.org Important: keep the mailing list in the recipients, do not reply only to the sender! Edit mailing list options or unsubscribe:  * https://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-users     __________________________________________________________ Kamailio - Users Mailing List - Non Commercial Discussions   * sr-users(a)lists.kamailio.org Important: keep the mailing list in the recipients, do not reply only to the sender! Edit mailing list options or unsubscribe:   * https://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-users -- Daniel-Constantin Mierla -- www.asipto.com <http://www.asipto.com> www.twitter.com/miconda <http://www.twitter.com/miconda> -- www.linkedin.com/in/miconda <http://www.linkedin.com/in/miconda> Kamailio Advanced Training - Online   Feb 21-24, 2022 (America Timezone)   * https://www.asipto.com/sw/kamailio-advanced-training-online/