Hello, Are there any options for pushing the traffic through the TLS module? Regards, Peter On 29 October 2013 10:17, Charles Chance <charles.chance(a)sipcentric.com>wrote;wrote: -- Peter Dunkley Technical Director Crocodile RCS Ltd _______________________________________________ sr-dev mailing list sr-dev(a)lists.sip-router.org http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev

It's not my decision, but personally, I'd leave this to the user to secure, just like everything else that is kind of IPC in nature (database connections, HTTP queries, etc originating from script).

On 29 October 2013 11:24, Alex Balashov &lt;abalashov(a)evaristesys.com&gt; wrote: It's not my decision, but personally, I'd leave this to the user to I'm inclined to agree. The DMQ module is indeed IPC in nature, so by default I would expect to be responsible for securing that communication at network layer. But still I question myself, is this the correct approach. Charles www.sipcentric.com Follow us on twitter @sipcentric <http://twitter.com/sipcentric> Sipcentric Ltd. Company registered in England & Wales no. 7365592. Registered office: Unit 10 iBIC, Birmingham Science Park, Holt Court South, Birmingham B7 4EJ. _______________________________________________ sr-dev mailing list sr-dev(a)lists.sip-router.org http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev

I agree with Olle that the common "pass the buck" attitude is wrong, although in this case I don't believe securing the messages should be mandatory. Often the communication between servers will be over a private/secure network and the user should be allowed to disable it if they deem it an unnecessary overhead.

Either way, the ability to use TLS where required is a definite must, so I'll go away and look into that now.

Thanks for the comments,

Charles On 29 October 2013 11:45, Peter Dunkley &lt;peter.dunkley(a)crocodilertc.net&gt; wrote: I don't know what would be involved in pushing DMQ messages through TLS as I am not familiar with the routing DMQ messages take through the Kamailio stack. I don't think that TLS should be mandatory for DMQ, just as it is not mandatory for SIP. My thinking was just that if there is a way to configure DMQ to use TLS (perhaps by just putting "tls:" on the front of the server address) it would be a good thing. Regards, Peter On 29 October 2013 11:36, Charles Chance &lt;charles.chance(a)sipcentric.com&gt; wrote: On 29 October 2013 11:24, Alex Balashov &lt;abalashov(a)evaristesys.com&gt; wrote: It's not my decision, but personally, I'd leave this to the user to secure, just like everything else that is kind of IPC in nature (database connections, HTTP queries, etc originating from script). I'm inclined to agree. The DMQ module is indeed IPC in nature, so by default I would expect to be responsible for securing that communication at network layer. But still I question myself, is this the correct approach. Charles www.sipcentric.com Follow us on twitter @sipcentric Sipcentric Ltd. Company registered in England & Wales no. 7365592. Registered office: Unit 10 iBIC, Birmingham Science Park, Holt Court South, Birmingham B7 4EJ. _______________________________________________ sr-dev mailing list sr-dev(a)lists.sip-router.org http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev -- Peter Dunkley Technical Director Crocodile RCS Ltd _______________________________________________ sr-dev mailing list sr-dev(a)lists.sip-router.org http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev www.sipcentric.com Follow us on twitter @sipcentric Sipcentric Ltd. Company registered in England & Wales no. 7365592. Registered office: Unit 10 iBIC, Birmingham Science Park, Holt Court South, Birmingham B7 4EJ._______________________________________________ sr-dev mailing list sr-dev(a)lists.sip-router.org http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev

On 29 Oct 2013, at 13:38, Charles Chance &lt;charles.chance(a)sipcentric.com&gt; wrote: I agree with Olle that the common "pass the buck" attitude is wrong, although in this case I don't believe securing the messages should be mandatory. Often the communication between servers will be over a private/secure network and the user should be allowed to disable it if they deem it an unnecessary overhead. Is that another myth - the secure/private/inside network? :-)

Either way, the ability to use TLS where required is a definite must, so I'll go away and look into that now. At least write the documentation so that most people believe that they have to have TLS and work hard to disable it :-)

On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Olle E. Johansson &lt;oej(a)edvina.net&gt; wrote: Have you heard of IPsec?

I am not convinced this is the right documentation style. I think documentation should be balanced, it's IMHO better to explain what options are available and not force a particular security mechanism down people's throat.

On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Olle E. Johansson &lt;oej(a)edvina.net&gt; wrote: Are you concerned about client-to-server or server-cluster scenarios? I was mainly pointing out that TLS is not necessarily the first choice when it comes to securing communication in server clusters, which is AFAIK where the dmq module is meant to be used. And in this particular case I'm not sure if making it hard to disable is the right choice.

On 29 Oct 2013 17:52, "Olle E. Johansson" &lt;oej(a)edvina.net&gt; wrote: ... Anyway, this discussion is now outside of the DMQ module and should propably continue in a general dev meeting. Yes, perhaps slightly out of the original scope now, but very interesting discussion nonetheless :) Back to DMQ though, enabling TLS support would be straightforward enough with a small change to the code. Then in config the user will just have to specify "sips:..." as the server address instead of "sip:...".

However, it still doesn't provide a way to verify that a received DMQ message has come from another DMQ instance, and not some other source.

To explain a little how the module works - it does not require the user to provide a static list of nodes at startup. Instead, it need only know about one other node, from which it can retrieve a full list of other nodes. The list is then maintained dynamically between nodes, making it possible to spin up new instances without restarting all the existing ones or having to issue some kind of reload command on each. So back to TLS, unless sessions are restricted to other servers in the cluster only, any client who is able to establish a connection with Kamailio is able to forge a DMQ message and currently, it will be processed blindly by the module.

Therefore, there still needs to be something within the module itself, a pre-shared key/secret for example, which enables the node to decide whether to act on the message or reject it. Once a node is in the shared list, it's not a problem, but during startup the other nodes will not know about it, so there needs to be some form of authentication, independent of the transport layer, I feel.

Am I the one who is overcomplicating things now?

Regards, Charles www.sipcentric.com Follow us on twitter @sipcentric Sipcentric Ltd. Company registered in England & Wales no. 7365592. Registered office: Unit 10 iBIC, Birmingham Science Park, Holt Court South, Birmingham B7 4EJ._______________________________________________ sr-dev mailing list sr-dev(a)lists.sip-router.org http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev

On 29 Oct 2013, at 20:58, Charles Chance &lt;charles.chance(a)sipcentric.com&gt; wrote: On 29 Oct 2013 17:52, "Olle E. Johansson" &lt;oej(a)edvina.net&gt; wrote: Yes, perhaps slightly out of the original scope now, but very interesting discussion nonetheless :) Back to DMQ though, enabling TLS support would be straightforward enough with a small change to the code. Then in config the user will just have to specify "sips:..." as the server address instead of "sip:...". NO! Don't mix SIPS: into the mix. In the rest of Kamailio we use ";transport=tls" SIPS: is a long a complicated bad story... ;-) However, it still doesn't provide a way to verify that a received DMQ message has come from another DMQ instance, and not some other source. S/MIME would handle that... ;-) Maybe we need something more simple. TLS will provide client certs which can contain metadata. To explain a little how the module works - it does not require the user to provide a static list of nodes at startup. Instead, it need only know about one other node, from which it can retrieve a full list of other nodes. The list is then maintained dynamically between nodes, making it possible to spin up new instances without restarting all the existing ones or having to issue some kind of reload command on each. So back to TLS, unless sessions are restricted to other servers in the cluster only, any client who is able to establish a connection with Kamailio is able to forge a DMQ message and currently, it will be processed blindly by the module. Ok, that's no good at all. Therefore, there still needs to be something within the module itself, a pre-shared key/secret for example, which enables the node to decide whether to act on the message or reject it. Once a node is in the shared list, it's not a problem, but during startup the other nodes will not know about it, so there needs to be some form of authentication, independent of the transport layer, I feel. A shared private CA signing certs could be one solution. Anyone with a certificate signed by the cluster CA can join. SIP Identity could be used if you don't want TLS. No. I need to take a new look at DMQ. /O Regards, Charles www.sipcentric.com Follow us on twitter @sipcentric <http://twitter.com/sipcentric> Sipcentric Ltd. Company registered in England & Wales no. 7365592. Registered office: Unit 10 iBIC, Birmingham Science Park, Holt Court South, Birmingham B7 4EJ._______________________________________________ sr-dev mailing list sr-dev(a)lists.sip-router.org http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev _______________________________________________ sr-dev mailing list sr-dev(a)lists.sip-router.org http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev