23 Mar
2022
23 Mar
'22
11:14 a.m.
There are various pages about the videos from Kamailio World but nothing
there about the license...
https://www.kamailio.org/w/2020/09/kamailio-world-2020-online-video-recordi…
https://www.youtube.com/c/KamailioWorld/
There is a fair use doctrine that people can generally use a screenshot
or extract from copyrighted material but it is better to have some
explicit statement there.
Could anybody please clarify this and update the web page?
There are two details required:
1. Who owns the copyright? By default, the name of the volunteer(s) who
recorded the videos or if the work was done under contract, was
copyright transferred to Kamailio, Asipto or anybody else?
2. Which license? The CC BY SA 4.0 license might be a good choice
consistent with existing Kamailio licensing:
BY: must credit the original work (Kamailio or volunteer)
SA: (ShareAlike) - derivative works must also be CC BY SA (viral effect,
like the GPL used for Kamailio itself)
https://creativecommons.org/choose/
I suspect that many speakers are motivated to use their videos in some
commercial context and may not be keen to apply the No Derivatives (ND)
or Non-Commercial (NC) constraints from Creative Commons.
Thanks to those who produced and shared these works for the community.
Regards,
Daniel
--
https://danielpocock.com
23 Mar
23 Mar
10:29 p.m.
Hello Daniel,
I am not aware of any explicit copyright assignment process that were done at the last
KamailioWorld conferences, at least the ones that I participated.
So, the copyright of the individual content (videos, slides) belongs to the individual
author/presenter. For the videos there is also probably some copyright regarding the video
production (e.g. like it was done from the Pascom guys). Obviously, the individual country
rights (Germany as the location, and probably also the authors origin) should be
considered as well.
In most cases the authors did not explicitly choose a licence for their content, so there
is no well-known licence like creative commons under which this content is available.
Fair use rights should apply in line with the individual country rights, but I am of
course not a lawyer.
If you want to (re-)use or reproduce this content in a commercial setting you probably
should contact the individual authors/presenter.
Cheers,
Henning
--
Henning Westerholt - https://skalatan.de/blog/
Kamailio services - https://gilawa.com
-----Original Message-----
From: sr-dev <sr-dev-bounces(a)lists.kamailio.org> On Behalf Of Daniel Pocock
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 10:14 AM
To: Kamailio Devel List <sr-dev(a)lists.sip-router.org>
Subject: [sr-dev] licensing of videos and images from Kamailio World?
There are various pages about the videos from Kamailio World but nothing there about the
license...
https://www.kamailio.org/w/2020/09/kamailio-world-2020-online-video-recordi…
https://www.youtube.com/c/KamailioWorld/
There is a fair use doctrine that people can generally use a screenshot or extract from
copyrighted material but it is better to have some explicit statement there.
Could anybody please clarify this and update the web page?
There are two details required:
1. Who owns the copyright? By default, the name of the volunteer(s) who recorded the
videos or if the work was done under contract, was copyright transferred to Kamailio,
Asipto or anybody else?
2. Which license? The CC BY SA 4.0 license might be a good choice consistent with
existing Kamailio licensing:
BY: must credit the original work (Kamailio or volunteer)
SA: (ShareAlike) - derivative works must also be CC BY SA (viral effect, like the GPL used
for Kamailio itself)
https://creativecommons.org/choose/
I suspect that many speakers are motivated to use their videos in some commercial context
and may not be keen to apply the No Derivatives (ND) or Non-Commercial (NC) constraints
from Creative Commons.
Thanks to those who produced and shared these works for the community.
Regards,
Daniel
--
https://danielpocock.com
_______________________________________________
Kamailio (SER) - Development Mailing List sr-dev(a)lists.kamailio.org
https://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev
11:20 p.m.
On 23/03/2022 21:29, Henning Westerholt wrote:
Hello Daniel,
I am not aware of any explicit copyright assignment process that were done at the last
KamailioWorld conferences, at least the ones that I participated.
So, the copyright of the individual content (videos, slides) belongs to the individual
author/presenter. For the videos there is also probably some copyright regarding the video
production (e.g. like it was done from the Pascom guys). Obviously, the individual country
rights (Germany as the location, and probably also the authors origin) should be
considered as well.
In the law, it is not the presenter, the author is the person taking a
photo or making a video:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photograph_copyright_(Germany)
In this case, it sounds like Pascom owns the copyright
Presenters would retain rights in their materials, e.g. slides and
photos used inside their slides
The videos are therefore a derivative work, derived from any materials
used by the presenter.
In most cases the authors did not explicitly choose a
licence for their content, so there is no well-known licence like creative commons under
which this content is available.
In a perfect world, all the presenters, video camera operators and
people who worked on editing (Pascom) would sign a disclaimer accepting
CC BY-SA or whatever.
For many purposes it would probably be sufficient for Pascom to provide
a statement to accept CC BY-SA 4.0 retrospectively, if they like that
idea. They could send an email here and link to it from the web page.
Fair use rights should apply in line with the
individual country rights, but I am of course not a lawyer.
If you want to (re-)use or reproduce this content in a commercial setting you probably
should contact the individual authors/presenter.
Actually, I think the bigger thing is for Pascom to give that authorization.
Regards,
Daniel
--
https://danielpocock.com
24 Mar
24 Mar
12:01 a.m.
Hello Daniel,
you are only partially correct. Under German copyright law there are different
copyrights:
- a copyright on the video on itself (which probably belongs to Pascom, as you've
stated)
- a copyright on the presentation (which belongs to the person presenting)
- a copyright to the slides/other material shown (which belongs to the creator of the
slides/other material)
I do not think that Pascom can simply give these rights away.
A similar right situation would be e.g., if I visit a concert of a well-known and famous
band and record it on my smartphone. I can not simple release this to the world, as I do
not own the rights on the actual music performance. Or when I make a picture from the Mona
Lisa, I am not allowed to sell my own copies from it etc..
Cheers,
Henning
--
Henning Westerholt – https://skalatan.de/blog/
Kamailio services – https://gilawa.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Pocock <daniel(a)pocock.pro>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 10:20 PM
To: Henning Westerholt <hw(a)gilawa.com>om>; Kamailio (SER) - Development Mailing List
<sr-dev(a)lists.kamailio.org>rg>; Kamailio Devel List
<sr-dev(a)lists.sip-router.org>
Subject: Re: [sr-dev] licensing of videos and images from Kamailio World?
On 23/03/2022 21:29, Henning Westerholt wrote:
Hello Daniel,
I am not aware of any explicit copyright assignment process that were done at the last
KamailioWorld conferences, at least the ones that I participated.
So, the copyright of the individual content (videos, slides) belongs to the individual
author/presenter. For the videos there is also probably some copyright regarding the video
production (e.g. like it was done from the Pascom guys). Obviously, the individual country
rights (Germany as the location, and probably also the authors origin) should be
considered as well.
In the law, it is not the presenter, the author is the person taking a photo or making a
video:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photograph_copyright_(Germany)
In this case, it sounds like Pascom owns the copyright
Presenters would retain rights in their materials, e.g. slides and photos used inside
their slides
The videos are therefore a derivative work, derived from any materials used by the
presenter.
In most cases the authors did not explicitly choose a
licence for their content, so there is no well-known licence like creative commons under
which this content is available.
In a perfect world, all the presenters, video camera operators and people who worked on
editing (Pascom) would sign a disclaimer accepting CC BY-SA or whatever.
For many purposes it would probably be sufficient for Pascom to provide a statement to
accept CC BY-SA 4.0 retrospectively, if they like that idea. They could send an email
here and link to it from the web page.
Fair use rights should apply in line with the
individual country rights, but I am of course not a lawyer.
If you want to (re-)use or reproduce this content in a commercial setting you probably
should contact the individual authors/presenter.
Actually, I think the bigger thing is for Pascom to give that authorization.
Regards,
Daniel
--
https://danielpocock.com
12:26 a.m.
Hi Henning,
Yes, you are correct about the other rights, it is not just for Germany
but I was starting off with the simplest step, the videos because if
Pascom did not want to grant a license then it would be a waste of time
asking the speakers:
you are only partially correct. Under German copyright
law there are different copyrights:
- a copyright on the video on itself (which probably belongs to Pascom, as you've
stated)
- a copyright on the presentation (which belongs to the person presenting)
There is one small distinction here: for a video the speaker has
copyright rights over their words, music, whatever
For somebody who takes a single frame out of the video and uses it as a
photograph they are not capturing the speaker's voice. As long as the
speaker had consented to being recorded, Pascom can grant people rights
to use still images.
- a copyright to the slides/other material shown
(which belongs to the creator of the slides/other material)
Only for those parts of the video where those materials are visible
Going one step further, if the speaker uses photos or videos in their
slides then it is important to verify that those photos and videos are
also under a compatible license or fair use scenario.
I do not think that Pascom can simply give these
rights away.
The first step is for Pascom to confirm, after having that confirmation
it is then possible to ask each speaker about their slides, etc.
A similar right situation would be e.g., if I visit a
concert of a well-known and famous band and record it on my smartphone. I can not simple
release this to the world, as I do not own the rights on the actual music performance. Or
when I make a picture from the Mona Lisa, I am not allowed to sell my own copies from it
etc..
Agreed and this is the same in many countries, not just Germany
Regards,
Daniel
--
https://danielpocock.com
8:36 a.m.
Hello Daniel,
I am not completely sure if I can follow your reasoning. Even if you just take certain
parts of a performance or work, the complete performance or work stays under copyright.
Even if you record only a song of a full concert the copyright still belongs to the
artist. Of course, there is a lower boundary here, as already mentioned for fair use or
scientific usage etc..
But before spending more time discussing about the licence particularities, why you are
actually interested in this topic?
Do you want to use the KamailioWorld recording commercially, want to distribute them in a
compilation which you want to sub-licence or similar?
Cheers,
Henning
--
Henning Westerholt – https://skalatan.de/blog/
Kamailio services – https://gilawa.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Pocock <daniel(a)pocock.pro>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 11:26 PM
To: Henning Westerholt <hw(a)gilawa.com>om>; Kamailio (SER) - Development Mailing List
<sr-dev(a)lists.kamailio.org>rg>; Kamailio Devel List
<sr-dev(a)lists.sip-router.org>
Subject: Re: [sr-dev] licensing of videos and images from Kamailio World?
Hi Henning,
Yes, you are correct about the other rights, it is not just for Germany but I was starting
off with the simplest step, the videos because if Pascom did not want to grant a license
then it would be a waste of time asking the speakers:
you are only partially correct. Under German copyright
law there are different copyrights:
- a copyright on the video on itself (which probably belongs to
Pascom, as you've stated)
- a copyright on the presentation (which belongs to the person
presenting)
There is one small distinction here: for a video the speaker has copyright rights over
their words, music, whatever
For somebody who takes a single frame out of the video and uses it as a photograph they
are not capturing the speaker's voice. As long as the speaker had consented to being
recorded, Pascom can grant people rights to use still images.
- a copyright to the slides/other material shown
(which belongs to the
creator of the slides/other material)
Only for those parts of the video where those materials are visible
Going one step further, if the speaker uses photos or videos in their slides then it is
important to verify that those photos and videos are also under a compatible license or
fair use scenario.
I do not think that Pascom can simply give these
rights away.
The first step is for Pascom to confirm, after having that confirmation it is then
possible to ask each speaker about their slides, etc.
A similar right situation would be e.g., if I visit a
concert of a well-known and famous band and record it on my smartphone. I can not simple
release this to the world, as I do not own the rights on the actual music performance. Or
when I make a picture from the Mona Lisa, I am not allowed to sell my own copies from it
etc..
Agreed and this is the same in many countries, not just Germany
Regards,
Daniel
--
https://danielpocock.com
8:55 a.m.
On 24/03/2022 07:36, Henning Westerholt wrote:
Hello Daniel,
I am not completely sure if I can follow your reasoning. Even if you just take certain
parts of a performance or work, the complete performance or work stays under copyright.
If you take one single frame out of a video, it does not reveal what the
person was saying
Example: a band is performing a song at a concert. If you take a photo
or if you take one frame from the video, it does not reveal any of the
words or music. Therefore, the copyright on the words and music are not
part of the equation for the still image / frame / photograph.
Even if you record only a song of a full concert the
copyright still belongs to the artist. Of course, there is a lower boundary here, as
already mentioned for fair use or scientific usage etc..
Actually, copyright also belongs to the person who wrote the song.
But before spending more time discussing about the
licence particularities, why you are actually interested in this topic?
I use some of the images from my own speeches. I felt it was respectful
to clarify the copyright on these images. Based on our discussion, that
copyright probably belongs to Pascom, unless there was some contract or
some other email exchange where they already licensed or granted the
copyright to the community.
If any speaker ever wants to use their image in a book or something it
could be more significant.
Do you want to use the KamailioWorld recording
commercially, want to distribute them in a compilation which you want to sub-licence or
similar?
No, I didn't have plans like that right now
Regards,
Daniel
--
https://danielpocock.com
12:28 p.m.
Hello,
KamailioWorld youtube channel has a mix of who did the recordings: the
editions 2020 and 2021 were online anyhow, not recorded by Pascom, then
the available videos of the first editions were recorded by someone else
as well.
Anyhow, I don't think the entity that did the recording has anything to
do with ownership/licensing if it was done as part of a commercial or
sponsorship agreement. The facility is not a public space, access inside
being grated also as part of an agreement (e.g., registration,
sponsorship, special pass, ...).
Therefore I think it gets to the organizers when it is strictly about
these recordings. The informational content of each video is owned by
presenter when applicable.
The recordings were done and published with the scope of creating a
knowledge base for the community, not for commercial profit purposes.
There were no explicit agreements to give the full rights of the
presented information for commercial use under a particular license. The
terms and conditions for participating to the event have the statement
to grant permissions to organizers for educational and promotion of the
conference purposes:
* https://www.kamailioworld.com/k07/terms-and-conditions/
Without consulting with anyone else at this moment, for anyone in the
community I think the fair approach is to discuss with the presenter and
any other person that shows up in the material that is going to be used.
For example, if there is about a frame of the video showing a slide made
by Alice, but with Bob being clearly visible in the image, then both
Alice and Bob have to give agreement.
Looking from another perspective, as another rule, I think it should be
fine as long as the materials are used in good faith, not causing any
damages (reputation, moral, personal, material, ...).
Cheers,
Daniel
On 24.03.22 07:55, Daniel Pocock wrote:
On 24/03/2022 07:36, Henning Westerholt wrote:
--
Daniel-Constantin Mierla -- www.asipto.com
www.twitter.com/miconda -- www.linkedin.com/in/miconda
Kamailio Advanced Training - Online
March 28-31, 2022 (Europe Timezone)
* https://www.asipto.com/sw/kamailio-advanced-training-online/
Hello Daniel,
I am not completely sure if I can follow your reasoning. Even if you just take certain
parts of a performance or work, the complete performance or work stays under copyright.
If you take one single frame out of a video, it does not reveal what the
person was saying
Example: a band is performing a song at a concert. If you take a photo
or if you take one frame from the video, it does not reveal any of the
words or music. Therefore, the copyright on the words and music are not
part of the equation for the still image / frame / photograph.
Even if you record only a song of a full concert
the copyright still belongs to the artist. Of course, there is a lower boundary here, as
already mentioned for fair use or scientific usage etc..
Actually, copyright also
belongs to the person who wrote the song.
But before spending more time discussing about
the licence particularities, why you are actually interested in this topic?
I use
some of the images from my own speeches. I felt it was respectful
to clarify the copyright on these images. Based on our discussion, that
copyright probably belongs to Pascom, unless there was some contract or
some other email exchange where they already licensed or granted the
copyright to the community.
If any speaker ever wants to use their image in a book or something it
could be more significant.
Do you want to use the KamailioWorld recording
commercially, want to distribute them in a compilation which you want to sub-licence or
similar?
No, I didn't have plans like that right now
Regards,
Daniel
--
https://danielpocock.com
_______________________________________________
Kamailio (SER) - Development Mailing List
sr-dev(a)lists.kamailio.org
https://lists.kamailio.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev
1005
days inactive
1006
days old
7 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Daniel Pocock -
Daniel-Constantin Mierla -
Henning Westerholt