4 Nov
2008
4 Nov
'08
6:22 p.m.
Hello Jiri,
For myself and Bogdan things are pretty clear. We both have companies
that closely depend on the success of the project and we have
contracts with customers to which we deliver. There is no doubt about
who we are, what we do, what is our motivation and driving factor.
Clarity is something customers need to have for the sake of their
current and future investments.
It is pretty unclear at this stage how the new project will shape up.
Merging and forking can lead to inimaginable places as we have seen
before several times and is nothing bad in the end as long as the eco-
system keeps going and the customers invest further in it, which
happend a lot in the last four years.
The real customers are the ones that can decide upon the best solution
for their own interests and we shall let them express their choice
once they have enough information and measurements.
Regards,
Adrian
On Nov 4, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Jiri Kuthan wrote:
Folks,
while there is not yet such a remarkable progress to be shared with
those
I have chosen to talk to on the opensips side, the invitation is of
course
very open to anyone with sincere interest in unforking.
-jiri
---
Hello Everybody,
We are pleased to announce to you the SIP Router project.
It aims to build a solid open source SIP routing platform, based on
collaboration of the SIP Express Router (SER) and Kamailio (OpenSER)
teams.
Developers of these two projects believe that an united and
non-conflicting environment will bring many benefits to them,
community
members and companies:
* bring together the developers and user communities of both
projects
* reduce maintenance overhead
* avoid duplicated efforts in development
* develop a core framework that is flexible, extensible and
scalable
* promote and build a solid open source SIP server project
* ensure business credibility
* make future forking undesirable, this harms everybody, affects
credibility and business
You are welcome to join! Visit the web site at:
http://sip-router.org
There is a meeting in Karlsruhe, Germany, on Nov 10, 2008, hosted by
1&1, where the developers and community members have the chance to
discuss and tune the last aspects of the new project. We are looking
to
see many of you there:
http://sip-router.org/index.php/meeting/
We hope this is a great news for you, thanks to the effort of main
developers and management teams of the two projects. We invite you to
join the new mailing list for further discussions:
http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev
Daniel, Jiri
Kamailio Management Team
SER Management Team
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)lists.opensips.org
http://lists.opensips.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
4 Nov
4 Nov
6:39 p.m.
New subject: [SR-Dev] [OpenSIPS-Users] [Fwd: [Serdev] the sip router project]
Adrian Georgescu wrote:
Hello Jiri,
For myself and Bogdan things are pretty clear. We both have companies
that closely depend on the success of the project and we have contracts
with customers to which we deliver. There is no doubt about who we are,
what we do, what is our motivation and driving factor. Clarity is
something customers need to have for the sake of their current and
future investments.
It is pretty unclear at this stage how the new project
will shape up.
Merging and forking can lead to inimaginable places as we have seen
before several times and is nothing bad in the end as long as the
eco-system keeps going and the customers invest further in it, which
happend a lot in the last four years.
The real customers are the ones that can decide upon the best solution
for their own interests and we shall let them express their choice once
they have enough information and measurements.
Hi Adrian,
Of course interests of companies and their customers are perfectly
legitimate
and to be accounted for, and transparency is helpful.
I'm just not clear about what possible conclusions relating to the
unforking debate
I may infer?
One way I explain to myself you meant to imply is that you are interested
in working on the merging effort? I really think forking is a bad thing
and companies and their customers will benefit of non-balkanized software.
(More sophisticated arguments about why forking is bad could be found
under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29)
Doing harm control is definitely a good thing to do.
-jiri
Regards,
Adrian
On Nov 4, 2008, at 2:46 PM, Jiri Kuthan wrote:
Folks,
while there is not yet such a remarkable progress to be shared with those
I have chosen to talk to on the opensips side, the invitation is of course
very open to anyone with sincere interest in unforking.
-jiri
---
Hello Everybody,
We are pleased to announce to you the SIP Router project.
It aims to build a solid open source SIP routing platform, based on
collaboration of the SIP Express Router (SER) and Kamailio (OpenSER)
teams.
Developers of these two projects believe that an united and
non-conflicting environment will bring many benefits to them, community
members and companies:
* bring together the developers and user communities of both projects
* reduce maintenance overhead
* avoid duplicated efforts in development
* develop a core framework that is flexible, extensible and scalable
* promote and build a solid open source SIP server project
* ensure business credibility
* make future forking undesirable, this harms everybody, affects
credibility and business
You are welcome to join! Visit the web site at:
http://sip-router.org
There is a meeting in Karlsruhe, Germany, on Nov 10, 2008, hosted by
1&1, where the developers and community members have the chance to
discuss and tune the last aspects of the new project. We are looking to
see many of you there:
http://sip-router.org/index.php/meeting/
We hope this is a great news for you, thanks to the effort of main
developers and management teams of the two projects. We invite you to
join the new mailing list for further discussions:
http://lists.sip-router.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sr-dev
Daniel, Jiri
Kamailio Management Team
SER Management Team
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)lists.opensips.org
http://lists.opensips.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
8:39 p.m.
New subject: [SR-Dev] forking and unforking
4 nov 2008 kl. 18.39 skrev Jiri Kuthan:
One way I explain to myself you meant to imply is that
you are
interested
in working on the merging effort? I really think forking is a bad
thing
and companies and their customers will benefit of non-balkanized
software.
(More sophisticated arguments about why forking is bad could be found
under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28software_development%29)
Doing harm control is definitely a good thing to do.
I don't fully agree with you there. Forking might be a good thing and
in some
cases, the only way forward for a developer or a group of developers.
There's
a reason why the open source licenses actually gives users and
developers
the right to fork. And one have to realize, you can't work with
everyone every
time. In Open Source, you don't pick your community and learn to work
with
almost every strange type there is. In some cases, chemistry just
doesn't work.
Often is more about people, than about code, features or actual result.
On the other hand, I personally try to avoid forking at all costs and
I applaud
the effort to unite. Not because I dislike forking, but that I like
that so many
highly professional developers with different skills decide to work
together.
If they prove that they can work together, I think we'll see miracles.
If they
can't, well at least they tried.
As Adrian says, in the end the result is what counts. As a consultant
and advisor to my customers, I have to be very realistic and at this
point say
"stick with OpenSER or SER, and wait and see what happens with OpenSIPS,
Kamailio and SER"... Most of them have working, running platforms and
there's
no acute need to upgrade.
Let's move forward and bring back the fun to these projects and create
great products!
/O
9:01 p.m.
New subject: [SR-Dev] forking and unforking
Johansson Olle E wrote:
Forking might be a good thing and
in some
cases, the only way forward for a developer or a group of developers.
There's
a reason why the open source licenses actually gives users and
developers
the right to fork. And one have to realize, you can't work with
everyone every
time. In Open Source, you don't pick your community and learn to work
with
almost every strange type there is. In some cases, chemistry just
doesn't work.
Often is more about people, than about code, features or actual result.
There is essentially two types of forks. One, what could be called
the OpenBSD-type, essentially is a relief to everyone. People that
can't work together split up and everyone is happier afterwards.
Both sides will insist that the other is a bunch of morons, but that
is how it is.
Then there is the EGCS-type. A group of developers believes the old project
to be to slow and stuck in their way and leaves. They proof their point and
after some time, everyone agrees that they had valid points and a merge
happens.
I truly believe that The Original Fork was of the latter type. I think that
we who stuck with SER learned our lessons. We still all have our reasons
why we stayed with SER and I think it important that our reasons are heard
and taken seriously. But in the end the situation is that the community
approach taken by OpenSER is more successful in terms of integrating people
and encouraging to contribute their time and effort.
Let's move forward and bring back the fun to these
projects and create
great products!
One second, I need to go fill my glass again ... There we are ... I toast
to that!
Best regards,
Mar"Hmm, Merlot"tin
5667
days inactive
5667
days old
3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Adrian Georgescu -
Jiri Kuthan -
Johansson Olle E -
Martin Hoffmann