[Serusers] Re: Fw: [Users] TM : retransmission timers

Tue Nov 21 23:48:12 CET 2006

I love such "independent" and "very very useful" tests ... one selected 
the versions he liked, latest development of ser with latest stable 
version of openser, the details about testing scenarios are pretty 
limited. However these details are very very insignificant, really.

What matters is this particular case: what you tested is useless and 
someone can better implement a tiny kernel module to perform same job 
much faster that will make openser/ser trashed instantly if that is 
their only usage. More important are the performances in real world 
cases. I am not going to do comparison tests and reveal numbers, I will 
let you do and hope make the results available.

I will exemplify with just two common use cases:
A) ITSP where usrloc is required - to get the throughput from your tests 
one needs to have over million of online users. Let me know how SER is 
doing with loading them, I can bet that it takes several minutes to 
start (so service down for a significat time) and lot to lookup a record 
afterwards, do not forget to mention required memory. Then we will see 
if the forwarding throughput is the bottleneck.
B) carrier - heavy accounting needed - take the latest cvs snapshots and 
test it, look at flexibility in same time and see if the balance of 
throughput and features is satisfactory. Do not forget that behind 
database should be redundant for a reliable accounting storage.

My conclusion and the point I wanted to underline is that forwarding is 
not the bottleneck by far and so far in real-world deployments -- or at 
least nobody reported in openser mailing lists. Once it will be, for 
sure there will be effort and focus to optimize it. I don't even bother 
to check the scenarios, environment and test results you had, because 
makes no sense today.

It is more important to look at the results gave, for example, here by 
an independent party:
http://openser.org/pipermail/users/2006-November/007777.html

With a real config and clustering system the performance of a box was 
300calls per second -- having at least 5 database accesses!!!. If you 
need double you can add one more hardware, without extra configuration 
overhead, just plug and play. And that is stable version of OpenSER 
since July this year (btw, for those who keep saying that OpenSER does 
not focus on stability, just check the CVS and see the number of bugs 
encountered with this release, maybe you can change your opinion), and 
you can have a safe environment distributed geographically where each 
hardware can undertake the traffic from the others on the fly. With 
single box crashing because of different independent reasons (hardware 
failure, power outages ...) you get no service ... with three boxes you 
can serve huge number of active subscribers in peak hours and have 
failover support, so service availability 100%. I am sure most of the 
people look now how to build reliable platforms that scale very easy and 
can be distributed around the world, with a bunch of useful features -- 
simple first line replacement is not the business case for VoIP anymore.

We didn't try at OpenSER to get a airplane when we have to drive city 
streets, we looked to get feature rich and reliable application for its 
use cases. I would propose to have focus on making own applications 
better than trying to show the other one is worse.

Cheers,
Daniel

PS. You can use stateless forwarding to get even better results, the 
usefulness will be the same.

On 11/21/06 12:30, Jiri Kuthan wrote:
> Regarding the technical discussion, here are some hard numbers which show
> how SER stack outperforms derivative work. Forwarding throughput is clearly
> several times better under stress and consequently, variation of response
> delay is rather stable.
>
>   
>> http://www.iptel.org/~vku/performance/tm.serXopenser.pulpuk/
>>     
>
>
> -jiri
>
>
> At 21:16 09/11/2006, Rao Ramaratnamma wrote:
>   
>> Hi Weiter,
>>
>> Yeah, I have been trying to limit myself to technical observations too, but the governance aspect is somewhat interesting too as a hint for future development, even though I guess even this is much more confusing than the technical ones. I have investigated, both projects have their firms with them that pursue their commercial interests which creates a risk of possibly departing from the public interest, like with redhat. From this angle they look quite similar. But if any worries me just a little bit more than openser.  Appearance at commercial shows on the "open" side versus technical event on the "net" side if I take your BSD parallel, marketing "open" webpage accusing "net" version bad, hiding root commerical sponsors on the "open" webpage, this could be signs for a redhat-like doubleedged sword.  Hopefully I am oversensing because I mean it is natural that everybody has SOME interest, but indisputably folks on both sides have done good work, but same indisputably more TRANSPARENCY would be helpful for both projects so that users can be less investigative.
>>
>> But I agree the technical comparison you suggest will be very useful if not most useful. This is what I am eventually upto. Anything folks have to tell in this topic is most welcome like the retransmission timers in subject or user loading.
>>
>> rr
>>
>> disconcerted by the fact that the more I know the more I am confused and determined to get over the learning curve quickly. also excuse the abuse I crossposted again but I think cross interrogation is a bit painful but the more effective :-)
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Weiter Leiter <bp4mls at googlemail.com>
>> To: Kim Il <kim_il_s at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: users at openser.org
>> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2006 1:42:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: Fw: [Users] TM : retransmission timers
>>
>> Common user barely has time to meet his boss requirements, rather than playing around with different scenarios, platforms, environments. 
>>
>> I only read one email where Daniel stated that OpenSER now performs a whole much better while loading users from database. SER guys put no figure out yet, neither bare numbers nor comparisons. I'm just really curious to see how both servers perform, that's all. 
>>
>> Even though I must maintain my SER, I kinda like OpenSER's faster releases and developers' responsiveness (that I shamelessly exploit for the common code left there :-), which is pretty much nonexistent with iptel (at least this is the general belief here at OpenSER). But about this I'll probably have to fight on SER's mailing list. I still wish that one day I won't have to compare features; heck, NetSER and FreeSER are still available ;-). 
>>
>> WL.
>>
>> PS. Maybe regretfully, I haven't seen any iptel booth at von this year, while OpenSER guys put up a nice show. My congrats.
>>
>> On 11/9/06, Kim Il <<mailto:kim_il_s at yahoo.com>kim_il_s at yahoo.com> wrote:  
>> I can see what you are hinting at, but I guess that the users are the unbiased party that should do the judgment and not the parties who have something to gain.
>> cheers
>>
>> Weiter Leiter <<mailto:bp4mls at googlemail.com>bp4mls at googlemail.com> wrote:  
>> This features comparisons are not to last for too long, some performance comparisons would also be nice. After all, there are plenty of UA-level stacks out there. At least now that both projects get to have stable releases after forking and some core functionality remained shared. 
>> I wonder what "unbiased" organization will take up the challenge. :-)
>> On 11/8/06, Kim Il <<mailto:kim_il_s at yahoo.com> kim_il_s at yahoo.com > wrote:  
>> Mike,
>> this is a really good start and we should collect these things  so as to help the  community to take the right choice. I would also suggest that what ever ground breaking issues we list we stay at the functional level (I do not think anyone is helped by using a description containing "allowing carrier grade platforms" and similar marketing phrases). 
>> cheers
>>
>>
>> {truncated because too large}
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sponsored Link 
>> Talk more and pay less. Vonage can save you up to $300 a year on your phone bill. <http://clk.atdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon1080000017von/direct/01/>Sign up now. 
>>
>>
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>>     
>
> --
> Jiri Kuthan            http://iptel.org/~jiri/  
>
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