LVS, load balancing, and stickness was ==> Re: [Serusers] more usrloc synchronization

[Alex Vishnev]

Greger and Paul,
 
I think you understood me correctly regarding forking proxy. It is the proxy
that will fork out the requests to all available peering proxies. This
approach does not require stickiness based on Call-id. AFAIK, once the
forking proxy receives an acknowledgement from one of its peers, then the
rest of the session will be done directly to that peer without the use of
the forking proxy. I am considering 2  approaches to resolve availability of
forking proxy. 1 - using ANYCAST (good high level article:
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/12/31/173152/86). 2 - using dns srv. I am
still trying to determine if ANYCAST is a good solution for creating local
RPs with forking proxy. However, I think that dns srv records can easily be
implemented to allow simple round robin between multiple forking proxies.
Thoughts?
 
Alex
 
  _____  

From: serusers-bounces at iptel.org [mailto:serusers-bounces at lists.iptel.org] On
Behalf Of Greger V. Teigre
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 4:47 AM
To: kramarv at yahoo.com
Cc: serusers at lists.iptel.org
Subject: LVS, load balancing, and stickness was ==> Re: [Serusers] more
usrloc synchronization
 
After my last email, I looked at ktcpvs and realized I ignored a couple of
things: ktcpvs only supports tcp (http is obviously tcp-based, but I thought
it supported udp for other protocols).  I don't know how much work
implementing udp would be.
    Here is a discussion of SIP and LVS that I found useful (though not
encouraging).
http://www.austintek.com/LVS/LVS-HOWTO/HOWTO/LVS-HOWTO.services_that_dont_wo
rk_yet.html
 
Paul: I'm starting to get really curious on the standard LVS components used
for your stickiness!  I'm not aware (also after searching now) of an LVS
balancing mechanism that allows correct stickness on SIP udp...!
And I found other too who are looking for it:
http://archive.linuxvirtualserver.org/html/lvs-users/2005-02/msg00251.html
 
My understanding is that ipvs must be extended (according to the developer)
with a call-id based scheduler and that this work has several people willing
to fund development, but that this has not(?) started yet.  The problem is
that ipvs is based on ip header analysis and extending the hashing
algorithms to also include payload-based analysis is not straight-forward. 
g-)
 
> With regards to stickiness: Have you looked at ktcpvs?  SIP is an
> "http-like" protocol and I'm pretty sure that you can use the
> http-based regex hashing to search for Call-Id.  If you cannot use it
> right out of the box, I'm pretty sure the modifications are minimal. 
>     The user location problem: With a cluster back-end, I also only
> see save_memory() as the only option. 
> g-)
> 
>> "Greger V. Teigre" <greger at teigre.com> wrote:
>>> Greger, thanks a lot.
>>> The problem with load balancer is that replies goes to the wrong
>>> server due to rewriting outgoing a.b.c.d . BTW, as Paul pointed, if
>>> you define some dummy interface with Virtual IP (VIP), there is no
>>> need to rewrite outgoing messages (I tested this a little).
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, if you use LVS with direct routing or tunneling, that is what
>> you experience.
>> ===Of course. That why I implemented small "session" stickness.
>> However, it causes additional internal traffic.
>> 
>>  What I described was a "generic" SIP-aware load balancer where SIP
>> messages would be rewritten and stickiness implemented based on ex.
>> UA IP address (or call-id like vovida's load balancer).
>> ====Sure, it's better solution; I think we'll go this way soon (in
>> our next version).
>> 
>>> Why DNS approach is bad (except restricted NAT - let's say I am
>>> solving this)?
>> 
>> Well, IMO, DNS SRV in itself is not bad. It's just that many user
>> clients do not support DNS SRV yet.  Except that, I like the concept
>> and it will give you a geographical redundancy and load balancing.
>> ===I am trying to build the following architecture:
>> 
>> DNS (returns domain's public IP)->LVS+tunneling (Virtual IP)->ser
>> clusters (with private IPs)
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>                                                                  DB
>> (MySQL 4.1 cluster)
>> 
>>> I guess, Paul utilizes load-balancer scenario you have described.
>>> Believe there are only proprietary solutions for
>>> "the-replies-problem". We tried Vovida call-id-persistence package,
>>> unfortunately it didn't work for us.
>> 
>> Are you referring to the load balancer proxy? IMHO, the SIP-aware
>> load balancer makes things a bit messy.  It sounds to me that the LVS
>> + tunneling/direct routing + virtual IP on dummy adapter is a better
>> solution.
>> 
>>> In my configuration I use shared remote DB cluster (with
>>> replication). Each ser see it as one-public-IP (exactly the approach
>>> you named for SIP). May be it's good idea to use local DB clusters,
>>> but if you have more than 2 servers your replication algorythm gonna
>>> be complex. Additional problem - it still doesn't solve usrloc
>>> synchronization - you still have to use t_replicate()...
>> 
>> 
>> I'm not sure if I understand.
>> ===Oh, probably I expressed myself not well enough...
>> 
>> So, you have 2 servers at two location, each location with a shared
>> DB and then replication across an IPsec tunnel??
>>     IMHO, mysql 3.23.x two-way replication is quite shaky and
>> dangerous to rely on.  With no locking, you will easily get
>> overwrites and you have to be very sure that your application doesn't
>> mess up the DB.  I haven't looked at mysql 4.1 clustering, but from
>> the little I have seen, it looks good. Is that what you use?
>> 
>> ===We have 2 or more servers with MysQL 4.1 virtual server (clusters
>> balanced by LVS). We use MySQL for maintaining subscribers' accounts,
>> not for location. User location is still in-memory only so far. I am
>> afraid I have to switch to ser 09 in order to use save_memory (thanks
>> Paul!) and forward_tcp() for replication.
>> 
>>> With regard to t_replicate() - it doesn't work for more than 2
>>> servers, so I used exactly forward_tcp() and save_noreply() (you're
>>> absolutely right - this works fine so far); all sers are happy. Of
>>> course, this causes additional traffic. Interesting whether Paul's
>>> FIFO patch reduces traffic between sers?
>> 
>> I believe Paul uses forward_tcp() and save_memory() to save the
>> location to the replicated server's memory, while the
>> save("location") on the primary server will store to the DB (which
>> then replicates on the DB level).
>> g-)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.sip-router.org/pipermail/sr-users/attachments/20050411/3ece0afb/attachment.htm>