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<p>Hello,<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10.02.22 08:36, Henning Westerholt
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:PAXPR05MB85581BB214A3F0FEDAEC9F56BF2F9@PAXPR05MB8558.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hello,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">just to add to the discussion:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">Please
have a look to the GPLv2 FAQ, many topics you’ve raised
are discussed there
<a
href="https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">You should
really consult a lawyer for this specific questions<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Regarding the licence of the configuration
(native script vs. KEMI) – my understanding would be that a
native Kamailio cfg script would be independent of GPL as
its interpreted (and practically the customer gets the
“source code” anyway). But KEMI LUA code that is
pre-compiled would fall under the GPL, so the customer has a
right to get the source code for it. Compare e.g., to this:
<a
href="https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I guess that the pre-compile is done by the luac, because
Kamailio does not have such feature. Kamailio can only load a lua
script (plain or pre-compiled) and push it as a parameter to
liblua functions. In my opinion this is only file/data loading
from kamailio point of view, definitely does not seem a
linking/compile operation. It can be seen as something similar to
reading SIP messages from the socket (everything is a file
descriptor in unix/linux philosophy) and I assume nobody considers
that received/sent SIP messages have to be GPL.<br>
</p>
<p>From this perspective, none of the config files (no matter they
are native scripting, lua, python, javascript, etc...) are forced
to be GPL, it is the decision of the config author what's its
license.<br>
</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
Daniel</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:PAXPR05MB85581BB214A3F0FEDAEC9F56BF2F9@PAXPR05MB8558.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Henning<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">-- <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Henning Westerholt –
</span><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a
href="https://skalatan.de/blog/" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1" lang="EN-GB">https://skalatan.de/blog/</span></a></span><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB">Kamailio services –
</span><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a
href="https://gilawa.com/" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1" lang="EN-GB">https://gilawa.com</span></a></span><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><b>From:</b>
sr-users <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sr-users-bounces@lists.kamailio.org"><sr-users-bounces@lists.kamailio.org></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Olle E. Johansson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 10, 2022 8:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kamailio (SER) - Users Mailing List
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sr-users@lists.kamailio.org"><sr-users@lists.kamailio.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [SR-Users] SEMS license with kamailio
and rtpengine<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi Seven!<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Note that many
of these questions open a legal discussion that has been
going on for many years. I base my answers on what I know,
which may not be the full truth. Regardless, I have been
involved in these kind of discussions for almost 30 years of
working in open source.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">First, note
that there are two kind of situations to observe. One is
when your application is executing in a system. The other is
the license of the written source code files. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Secondly,
license and copyright are two different things. You always
have the copyright to your source code.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">In Kamailio
there are source code files that have a different license
than the rest of the files. That means that if you copy that
source code and create a new product that license applies.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Kamailio as a
whole is released under GPL version 2. When you run Kamailio
in your server, that license applies to it all, regardless
of the license of various source code files.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Also note that
I base this discussion on a delivery of a system to a
customer. When you run Kamailio as a service you do not
deliver (according to GPL v2) and the customer doesn’t have
the same rights to the source.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Also note that
(as other persons has pointed out) that it’s the recipient
of the binaries that has the rights, not the world. If I am
not your customer, I can’t demand the source code according
to the GPL. The customer that receives the code has the
right to do whatever they want with it - like publishing the
source on GitHub for the world to enjoy.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">10 feb.
2022 kl. 00:16 skrev Seven Du <<a
href="mailto:dujinfang@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dujinfang@gmail.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I
have some questions on this, e.g. on Kamailio:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">1.
The core and some modules is GPL. I packaged that
without change, and sell to a customer. and when
the customer asks for source, I told him to
download from the kamailio website, since I didn't
change anything. Is that correct?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">How you
distribute the source code to the customer is irrelevant
here. Note that if you end up having to provide it on a
floppy disk or a USB stick, you can charge for that
according to the GPL :-)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">2. I
can also host the source on my own website, with
some more helper scripts for building and
packaging. That should be better?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I can’t
judge if it’s better or worse, it has very little
relevance to with the license. Just make sure that you
include the signatures made by the Kamailio team so the
customer can trace it back to the source and make sure
there’s no changes.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">3. I
write a new module, 100% code wrote from scratch,
just follow the module guidelines or example code
to expose/add hooks to core, dynamically loaded
into kamailio. Do I need to use GPL or can it be
any license or even closed source? can I sell the
standalone module in binary?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Your source
code has to be licensed in a license that can end up being
compatible with GPL. You can not have a commercial license
on it, since when executing it as part of Kamailio, GPL
applies.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Since your
module ends up being GPL while running in a system you
deliver for a fee or for free to your customer, your
customers has a right to the source code.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">4.
my module still should be GPL since I have to call
GPL code in kamailio source, e.g. string functions
in core. or maybe it's ok if string functions in
kamailio core is BSD?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">When
executing ALL of Kamailio is GPL, including all linked
modules.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">5.
If my module link to a 3rd party lib (e.g.
libclosed-source.so or libclosed-source.a I think
there's no difference?) which is not open source
(but free to sell), can I sell it w/o the source
of libclosed-source ?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Linking
means that you execute in the same processes and according
to most this means that GPL applies. That’s why we have a
lot of protocols where most people think that GPL does not
apply, even though some people want to discuss that. In my
personal view it’s ok to write commercial software that
communicates over RPC or by using the http_client with
Kamailio.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">In Asterisk,
the license specially permits this use of the various
Asterisk protocols since there was discussions. Most
Asterisk developers believed it wasn’t necessary and that
GPL did not apply when using protocol based API’s. But
nevertheless, just to avoid discussions, this was
clarified in the license.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">6.
If answer to 5 is yes, I can write my own
libclosed-source and sell with whatever license?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">You can, but
if it links to Kamailio in run-time, then it will at that
point become GPL licensed regardless of what you have
written. That’s why many companies stay away from GPL,
especially libraries that are licensed with GPL, because
it can affect your own licenses.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">7.
Regards to KEMI, if I write routing scripts with
Lua (compiled with luac) and sell to a customer,
should I open source the Lua code? The Lua code
calls Kamailio core functions which might be GPL.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">That is an
interesting question which I’m not ready to answer. I
think the intention of the Kamailio dev team is that your
code should not be affected by GPL, but we may want to
clarify that.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">If you write
a regular configuration script I would personally clearly
think you have the rights to that. The idea with KEMI was
to introduce modern ways of writing configuration scripts.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Thanks.
I don't mean to violate the GPL, just want to be
clear and easier to understand the license.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Always good
to start the day with a GPL discussion :-)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">/O<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On
Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 9:05 PM Henning Westerholt
<<a href="mailto:hw@gilawa.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">hw@gilawa.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt">Hello,<br>
<br>
(just to add the obvious disclaimer that this is
not legal advice, I am not a lawyer).<br>
<br>
> [Would it be ok] if it were [using] a
standalone service to which Kamailio interfaced
using very narrowly confined and general-purpose
communication channels?<br>
<br>
I do not think there is a problem regarding to
the GPL in this case. Interfacing over
SIP/HTTP/RPC/XMLRPC or other standard mechanism
to a dedicated process would not establish a
close coupling between Kamailio and the other
code.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I
think it's correct. e.g. if you use evapi or
http to talk to your service you don't have to
open source your service code.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Cheers,<br>
<br>
Henning<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Henning Westerholt – <a
href="https://skalatan.de/blog/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://skalatan.de/blog/</a><br>
Kamailio services – <a
href="https://gilawa.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://gilawa.com</a><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: sr-users <<a
href="mailto:sr-users-bounces@lists.kamailio.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sr-users-bounces@lists.kamailio.org</a>>
On Behalf Of Alex Balashov<br>
Sent: Wednesday, February 9, 2022 1:50 PM<br>
To: Kamailio (SER) - Users Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:sr-users@lists.kamailio.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sr-users@lists.kamailio.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [SR-Users] SEMS license with
kamailio and rtpengine<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Feb 9, 2022, at 7:46 AM, Henning
Westerholt <<a href="mailto:hw@gilawa.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">hw@gilawa.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
>> If modules are designed to run linked
together in a shared address space, that almost
surely means combining them into one program.”<br>
> <br>
> This is exactly what applies to Kamailio
due to the core and module architecture. The
core and modules also share common data
structures and memory segments.<br>
<br>
I see. So, practically, the only way a custom
module could be considered meaningfully separate
according to these criteria is if it were a
standalone service to which Kamailio interfaced
using very narrowly confined and general-purpose
communication channels?<br>
<br>
— Alex<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC<br>
<br>
Tel: +1-706-510-6800 / +1-800-250-5920
(toll-free)<br>
Web: <a href="http://www.evaristesys.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.evaristesys.com/</a>,
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.csrpswitch.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">__________________________________________________________
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</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Daniel-Constantin Mierla -- <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.asipto.com">www.asipto.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/miconda">www.twitter.com/miconda</a> -- <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/miconda">www.linkedin.com/in/miconda</a>
Kamailio Advanced Training - Online
Feb 21-24, 2022 (America Timezone)
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